Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

with the former being much less significant (assuming your normal definition of host) than the latter

Skye and I are not different 'forms of being' in any way.

3:56 AM

Neither more significant or insignificant.

you are parts of your larger whole

One has existed for a longer period of time. That's it.

I don't disagree

Yes. And that larger whole is the whole human being that we are.

3:57 AM

Wonderful.

but I would not gauge either of you as individuals within that system as increidbly significant

3:57 AM

compared to the underlying system as a whole

3:57 AM

...I'm using system here. I mean the mechanical-esque term, not the plurality term

Understood.

my point is, say, that you as (which one is the tulpa?) decided to dissipate (which one is the host?) because you just weren't thinking much of the host anymore

3:58 AM

it isn't due tod epression, you aren't escapist, and so on

3:58 AM

I really wouldn't find it very significant.

3:58 AM

comapre this to wanting to shoot yourself in the head

3:58 AM

that's a bigger deal

3:59 AM

in the same way, I'm not concerned about people getting into tulpamancy and abusing their tulpa, or whatever else

3:59 AM

it's their head

In terms of value to everyone else - that depends on who they interacted with more, who they enjoyed the company of more, etc.

3:59 AM

However, it is certainly more significant if we chose to end our life entirely, of course.

that form of loss is no more or less significant than the loss of any change in personality

4:00 AM

imagine a formerly happy person turning up sullen and uninspired

4:00 AM

a similar death has occurred

...I would also point out that the death of two people is more significant than the death of one person.

1

I wouldn't consider the shooting yourself as the death of two people

4:00 AM

but the death of one person, with two identities

That isn't my point, let me finish.

4:01 AM

The death of two people vs the death of one certainly doesn't mean that there shouldn't be concern for abuse of the one of those people.

my analogy there is that there are differences

Similarly, the abuse of a tulpa or host is reason for concern as well.

here I think is a talk about how big the differences are

4:02 AM

and how the mechanics are different when dealing with internal treatment of tulpa/host vs external treatment of another person

4:02 AM

but I do genuinely have to get to bed

how dar u

I hope I didn't come across as too grating there

I do also question whether you are concerned about somebody engaging in self-abuse.

Good night Reg o/

After all, if they aren't physically harming themselves, it's no concern.

4:02 AM

RIght?

4:03 AM

It's their head.

I am concerned, but I do not think tulpamancy gives them a significant tool by which to do this

And I disagree.

and I do not think that the frequency of this going on is the concern when people try to gate tulpamancy behind caution

4:04 AM

rather, the dissipated tulpas, are the concern, more often than not

4:04 AM

or ignored tulpas

But then, I do attach more significance to individual people, whether they are a tulpa/host or a physical person overall. I have also physically interacted with another tulpa and host separately, making it clear that they are in fact individuals deserving their own respectful treatment.

or so on

I have also observed other people directly being depressed, and been through depression that Skye wasn't through - similarly, she goes through anxiety that I don't.

4:05 AM

There are in fact differences that cannot be understated or pushed aside by "tulpas and hosts are just identities, it's all in the person's head".

there's lots of stuff to discuss, lots of fun to be had

4:05 AM

I do have to go to sleep, though

4:06 AM

so with a convenient excuse, goodnight

Take care.

Jeez, you guys were going at it for over two hours.

Not shocking.

4:08 AM

I like discussion.

Actually the topic of timelines in #server-discussion reminded me, I recently(month agoish) found a really detailed article about the history of plurality communities online that discussed a variety of MPD/DID/Multiplicity forums going back to the early days of the internet. Does anyone have any clue what I'm talking about or where to find it, because I regret not saving a link and lost it.

I'm not sure if you're talking about something of lb-lee? Maybe have a look https://lb-lee.dreamwidth.org/881645.html

what format did this article have? blog post? gdoc? something professional?

Really angery at myself for not remembering more details, but I think I remember it being a blog post of some variety

10:56 AM

Checked that link and it's possible it was a site like that, but I have no clue how to navigate around it

here's her plurality stuff https://lb-lee.dreamwidth.org/tag/multi+geekdom

Went through the pages and don't think it was anything there, but thanks for the help.

mhm. Other than those I think I've not actually seen the article you're describing. Curious tbh

"imagine a formerly happy person turning up sullen and uninspired a similar death has occurred" Really interesting to see someone else propose such a thing, although you're leaving out the major detail that an awful lot goes into an "identity", the things that differentiate a tulpa from another tulpa or host. I have to wonder if you read my host's recent post on this - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-evidence-for-plurality-plus?pid=202547#pid202547

evidence for plurality, plus

Alright, I am leading with this completely hypothetical, speculative discourse with no attempt to find a definitive answer. This is just me wanting a discussion point because I am of off topic reading

2:06 PM

That avatar is going to bug me to no end, but at least I've got my name..

2:09 PM

Anyways, I highly recommend anyone even browsing this channel give that post a read. It's the culmination of many years of thought on the matter, and could very well help explain tulpamancy and/or plurality for those of you without your own solid thoughts on the matter.

yep that's p much my way of viewing it as well, nice post

What do I do when I read it and have multiple issues with it

identification plays a rather large part in the process, so yeah, some people can play it as identifying at levels that are not conductive to tulpamancy (eg. the whole that goes on in their heads) and so

Unless you're allergic to Tulpa.info, you could consider posting in the thread perhaps.

I'm not allergic to it but I also don't have any interest in contributing to it's livelihood as a forum tbh

Identification going away is not very significant to any of the functions a person might do. No capability is lost, and identities don't actually disappear, they fall out of use, like getting rusty when it comes to riding a bike.

I'm just saying there's importance to an identity neurologically, while any one facet of personality might not be quite so encompassing.

I also had not read your post, I haven't read.info in ages now

I figured, hence why it was interesting to hear you say what you did. We have never stated or seen such a thing stated until that post.

I assumed you were attempting to counter or debunk, so sorry of I reacted inappropriately

Oh no, I wanted to express that I agreed with such an abstract thought, but note that I didn't agree entirely.

Having an identity is fairly important for mental health, otherwise people wouldn't spend such time and effort maintaining it, nor have such significant issues when that sense of identity is lost.

I really would prefer not to "discuss" things like this in realtime chat.

4:54 PM

And we've already discussed it to death on the forums, so..

4:54 PM

Just take it for what it was I guess

Having an identity, maybe, but once you're making and shifting them around the importance shifts away from any of the individual identities.

How so?

Imagine a person who segments mentally ill or undesirable thoughts to an identity.

In our system, our identities have developed to become quite complex. We no longer share the same instinctive thoughts and reactions to things while fronting.

They cannot dissipate that identity, because they'd need to cure the illness first.

I think you can change yourself to some extent to suppress them through placebo.

But imagine an identity that is not based in something out of control in that way

I think tulpamancy/plurality is an extremely potent way to interact with the mind where placebo would normally be required.

And consider that having an identity at all is like the mental illness, except it is a mental health.

But not by just giving all of the traits to another identity, moreso you can learn about how your mind works and how much control you have over it by being part of a system.

I would say that you change yourself by forcing

Lumi has made quite the life-changing life changes thanks to Reisen and the rest of us.

4:58 PM

Not like physical, moreso mindset. Reisen was such a positive thinking influence she managed to make him think more positively, that is.

As you change yourself, the parts that aren't under easy control, by changing your environment, the way you act, and so on.

..."giving traits to an identity" is symbolism. Those issues still exist and don't lack their effects. They may be dulled by that symbolism, but not removed.

I meant that the placebo invoked by convincing yourself you no longer have those traits can be quite powerful.

Dulled, or understood, like thinking about a concept with math letting you understand it better